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(en) a las barricadas: Libertarian participation in Referendum Defense Committees - CDRs: Complete interviews with Edurne (Embat), Oleguer (Can Tonal) and Marta by Gavroche (ca, it) [machine translation]
Tue, 29 May 2018 08:48:38 +0300
The questions are: ---- In what CDR are you? What is the profile of people? ---- We
understand that the CDRs arise to logistically support the Generalitat in the 1-O
Referendum. How are they born, they evolve and what is their trajectory so far? When and
why do you decide to participate in the CDR? ---- How is the day to day of your CDR? (what
can be counted - number of attendees and frequency of the assemblies, activities that have
been carried out or carried out, ...) ---- Do you think that 15M has had any influence on
its operation? It seems that the proposal for the functioning of the CDRs based on
democratic confederalism was approved (
-defensa-del-referendum-cdr /) how do you assess its implementation and its practical
validity as a method of coordination?
Are the CDRs socially or nationalist entities? Do they have a strategy? What kind of
country is your CDR proposing?
Do you consider a military contradiction in a space with nationalist people?
What opinion do you have of the role played by the libertarian since 1-O? What could be
Do you think that the situation of the hands of the Catalan politicians escaped on 1-O and
How has the media and legal attack affected everything from the actions in the return
operation of the Holy Week?
What would you say to the compas of the rest of the state about the moment in which
Catalonia is living?
What do you think about the role played by the Catalan parties since 1-O? Having this
effervescence in the society because governments are always directed by the PDCAT?
What do you think Quim Torra will do? How have the CDRs fitted the new President?
1.- In the CDR of Mexico City. The CDR of Mexico City was initiated by the CUP that is
here, but exceeds the margins of its start. The people are of all ages. There are some
Mexicans and also bases (voters) of PDecat and ERc and people of ANC Mexico. The
interesting thing is that for the first time the profile of people is more heterogeneous
and more politicized and less folkloric. Compasses from Euskal Herria and people like me
from other areas also participate, which before had not been in spaces with a national
axis, but social.
What I would say is that curiously in all parts of the world where CDRs arise, the same
pattern is given a bit. The percentages change, but they are defined by their autonomy,
their clear objective of breaking space and very heterogeneous composition.
2.- In the case of CDRs at the international level, it is a little different because it is
not in the territory at that time. In our case, we constituted and presented ourselves
publicly during the month of November 2017. The CDR of Mexico arises as a result of the
day of 1-O and police brutality.
From a distance we saw that what was happening was the prelude to a scenario of
repression and fascism. On the other hand, from a context such as the Mexican one, we saw
clearly that it was essential to do a dissemination work and explain the complexity of the
We emerged in part because the issue was gaining strength in the media but nevertheless in
all the activities that were carried out, they were pure actors with the official
discourse of the Government and the Spanish State (colonial and imperalist), reducing
everything to a question of flags without understanding (and often without wanting to
understand) the real problems. The alliances between the political and media elites and
the official discourse of the country (and consumed by a huge percentage of Mexican
society) with the Spanish establishment became evident. Something that seemed unheard of
in a colonized country with indigenous struggles.
We had many ideas and we saw it necessary to get in touch with other Mexican political
spaces, such as the libertarian, communist or indigenous struggles or the Zapatista
movement. He participated in some activity with rows of Marichuy during the month of December.
I decided to participate in Catalan things because I felt that they had crossed limits
that we could not see that we did not care just because they were from PDECAT or ERC.
Regardless of whether I believe the electoral system and the parties (which I do not and
that I am very critical) when the move comes great and puts on the table limits and frames
of struggle that go beyond those of going against, must be put. For me, about the
interventions of the Consellería and then the 155 and then the sticks of 1-O, politicians
in exile as if it were normal? WTF? Carte blanche for the persecution and repression, were
gravisimos facts that indicated the level of authoritarianism of the Spanish State. It
opened the door to impunity in the violation of rights and systematically entered into an
increasingly dictatorial drift.
3.- We started very strong and with enough people, about 40-50, but the size of the city,
the rhythm of life and the structure of the country make constancy and a weekly rhythm
very difficult. We organized work commissions and during a time they worked very well,
especially communication. We were clear about the objective and the message and we enabled
a whole system of selection and publication of articles that would serve to train
Participated in round tables, seeking to occupy those spaces that the elites (cultural and
academic tb) only gave to characters such as Fernando Sabater (at the Guadalajara Book
Fair, where an action was taken).
Some visibility actions were also carried out together with other international CDRs,
currently about 20 or more, in dublin, milan, bordeaux, london, Bogota, Berlin and Berlin
e, Brussels, Munich ... All with very different profiles .
4.- Well, in Mexico the proposed operation of the CDR according to the approaches of the
Kurdish project did not arrive. But neither is space. The international CDR's aim is to
internationalize the conflict, making it known, explaining the complexity so that it is
understood that it is not about flags but about the possibility of creating a fairer
society and that Spain is a country in which the violation of rights is practiced and that
it never broke with its colonial or Dictatorial past.
It is evident that there is a connection between the 15M and the CDRs. The 15M was the
opening to questions about the Regime of 78 at a time of crisis, which resulted in an even
larger crisis of structural caliber. The 15M questioned democracy and failed in several
points as the level of "apartids" / "apolitism" and the lack of clear horizons. There are
very clear horizons and people have experienced very strong experiences that connect very
directly with the recent past and that means that people do not give up and that there is
no alternative but to go ahead with the process of rutpura.
15M was learned and implicitly all sum, you just have to see that the CDR exist since 1-O
and still continue and with more influx of people than 15M neighborhood assemblies 6
months after the places.
On implantation and coordination, I can not say much in those terms, although I think that
despite deficits of operation, CDRs are being good laboratories of social institutions
just because of their heterogeneity, there are many CDRs in many towns of Catalonia that
have realities and dynamics very different from those of large cities. Unlike the 15M that
was very localized in the cities, the CDRs permeate the entire territory and at times,
have been stronger outside the city than inside.
5.- In the case of CDR Mexico, little political debate is made and many equilibria are
played. The context is very different. There are two clear lines, some more broken line
and others less. However, because of the Mexican context, from the first moment we are
committed to giving more strength to the axes of the right of self-determination of
peoples and decolonial perspective and, on the other hand, putting the risk of fascism on
There is no strategy, beyond the latency because it is known that this is long and the
structure is and reacts when it touches. At our (Mexican) pace it is not abandoned and
there are ideas and proposals to be made as far as possible.
6.- Yes but no. As I said at the beginning, since day 20S and with what has been happening
after, you realize that this is something very big. Risky, but that has no reverse. Doing
nothing implies yes or yes, authoritarianism, fascism and total loss of rights. A
framework in which to talk about social policies will be a debate for Martians. That the
only way to be able to advance socially, even to be able to propose some more structural
change is from a constituent process and breaking with the 78 Regime, to give way to other
options. It is not easy to discuss, deal with and talk to people who see very clearly that
you can not count on politicians, but still live with them. However, there have been
changes, even the people of the Catalan right are for consumption of proximity or changing
accounts of Caixa Enginyers, passing to Som energia or Som connexio, for example. Or with
much solidarity with Altsasu, Valtonyc, Hasel ... the AVE of Murcia, is also getting into
awareness with gender issues such as the herd, etc ..
7.- Except the compañerxs that have been involved, in general I feel that social movements
(not only liberatrios) look at it closely and propose something else, but since the
discredit, in the attitude of social movement, it is because now It is what there is, but
it is not really, we believe that it serves no purpose. There is as a maintenance of the
postures that prevents carrying out a popular work from below.
And a general feeling of much criticism and watching from the box, a little equidistant
from self-fulfilling prophecy, if nothing happens they will say "See?". However, it is
evident that there are multiple signs of exhaustion of the system currently ordered by
Spain. The territorial unit, and not only for the Catalan theme, but for the evident
plurality of its nature ... and the crisis continues ... the causes are structural, so 15M
opened the door and this is a new phase.
I feel that from social movements it is very assumed to work for things that can not
change, so you do not enter into contradiction or reformism or in complicated scenarios.
To stand on something like what is happening implies contradiction and from it is that I
understand that we have to work. Also put from a constituent logic and not complaint,
complaint and demand, is very difficult and does not seem comfortable ... the shield is
that it is something of ancional area, when it is the opposite and just that inaction
gives court to the right and the interests so that this can not go any further.
8.- Totally. There I realized that they have been doing the opposite of what the media
says for years. The media say that PDECat manipulates. And it's just the other way around.
Artur MAs had to assume "lead" the struggle of Procés, because if not they would sink as a
party. And so also ERC. That is, they were dragged by the Catalan social bases. That is
why what they always want is the opposite, to control it to restore the status quo.
9 .- Well, in general terms, the attacks have not obtained the expected effect of massive
and hegemonic criminalization. In the end who is not in a CDR, knows or has a relative who
is. It is something too capillary to control and at the same time, to be able to
criminalize, at least in Catalonia. And that scares everyone (in Epsalña and in the Parlament)
10.- Well, look for information there is a lot, but do not create anything that is roughly
told by the media. And make reflections. To my person, perhaps where I live, but the
decolonial frame of reference has been very helpful. We did not even know the history of
Spain and Catalonia and that it is worthwhile to learn the information because it helps us
all to understand that what happens in Catalonia is only a gateway, that the problem is
huge and affects the whole territory. Video 1 and video 2 .
11.y12 juntas- Catalan parties, personally I do not know if they have disappointed me
because I never expect much from them and I do not believe them or believe them. And both
ERC and Pdecat have been the great disappointment of the Catalan electorate because they
have shown that they are feeding the process and autonomy. Let your interests prevail over
those of the general population. This is something very important.
However, I must admit that I was surprised by the level of naivety on the part of those
parties and that they are not knowing how to live up to the circumstances (there was no
strategy nor was it known that Spain was violent, it was believed that it would be to sit
down and negotiate. ..). Dan autenitca penilla ... and that's surprising. This is also
seen by the normal people and average voter of these parties. They fall soul to the floor
watching how they act.
That the governments direct them the Pdecat is partly because ERC never dares to give the
face, everything is always to move the threads without assuming responsibility, as a
strategy of supervening, as they are doing now with the commons, for example, they have
been months preparing the stage for the municipal in BCN at the expense of negotiating
autonomy in the Parliament.
The pique between Pdecat and ERC came when ERC realized in 2015 that this strategy had
prevented him from exercising some control, which suddenly, he decided or discovered that
he would have liked it. No more
Quim Torra will processism, that is, we will lose autonomy, de facto the statute is
annulled and the institutions intervened, which in practical terms means that we have no
government, but a manager in the style of Primo de Rivera or Franco. But he will show that
he tries to be insubmissive to Rajoy's designs to encourage prosecution, or that he is
going to settle down as a worse state without moving. Another thing is what will happen.
That is their strategy to move on to governance and control (de-escalation and recovery of
institutions) but those who give a vote of confidence are expectant and many others do not
believe it but do not know how to promote a change of country and from down but there they
go and possibly they will continue. That is why it is important to understand from outside
Catalonia and to start moving at the state level. In turn Rajoy tb will show pq lives from
the votes that gives the new public enemy.
The option to invest Puigdemont was an act of insubmission but nobody wanted to carry it
out. And he is a person who has managed to be an actor of consensus.
The CUP has remained firm, but in general they are not seeing medium and long-term
strategy ... they are all very stuck in the corridors of the Parliament and the palace
intrusions. And society goes free.
Oleguer (Can Tonal)
1. CDRL Vilamajor. It is made up of very diverse people from the town. From 16 to 75 years
old. From people who have just arrived in town to people from the families of all their
lives. From very precarious to fairly well-off. From clearly independentistas to people
who do nothing. Very little previous militancy or political affiliation, in two towns
(Sant Pere i Sant Antoni) that gather approximately 10,000 inhabitants, and with little
2. Our CDR is created a couple of weeks before October 1 when a group of neighbors (who
informally are part of a communal neighborhood movement that is encouraging the last few
years in the town) agree that the referendum is a good opportunity to defend local
self-organization as means and end, and we want to be present in it in a constructive
critical way. Another objective that we set ourselves was "to add 8 or 10 people in the
community movement of the town".
With the support of the local ANC (to which we are going to visit and to state that
neighborhood committees are leaving in other towns), we convened a first constitutive
assembly 10 days before the referendum. There the 25 people present explain why we are
there, and we realize the immense variety. What is common to all is the will to defend the
town against possible attacks by the police, and the right to self-determination.
October 1 is a first moment of empowerment, but before it was already clear that our work
went beyond the realization of the Referendum, to defend popular power in everything that
was generated, speaking of Procés constituent and such.
In this sense, on October 15 we promoted a debate within the CDRL with the aim of putting
on the table the different ways of understanding "independence" and "democracy" that
existed, as well as what united us, and with a fundamental principle "If for the Spanish
State diversity is a problem, as we are seeing, for us it must be a source of strength".
The strong ideas that came out were that motivated us the possibility of rethinking
everything, basing the new on neighborhood self-organization, municipalism, although
accepting that it was a long and profound change.
Apart from the commissions "Communication", "Actions" and "Activities" come two new
commissions: Procés Cosntituent and Disconnection, this last one destined to go thinking
things that we can be doing already in the town to disconnect from the State, from the
local self-management to tax issues and such.
Subsequently, we created two more commissions: one for conflict management within the CDR
(also placing personal relationships at the center) and another to confront the
polarization of our neighbors and to seek forms of dialogue and inclusion. We call the
latter "Territorial Cohesion".
Two successes to be taken into account: 1) a lot of openness to all the villagers (with
easy security mechanisms because the neighbors know each other a lot), and at the same
time a Telegram group with the people who take responsibility in a commission or attend
three assemblies in a row (so that the people who commit themselves, who have stayed in a
small group of between 20 and 35 people, do not burn, and at the same time encourage
people to take responsibility) 2) Limit the time of the assemblies in which we talk about
supra-local things to 20% (in exceptional occasions more), so that the process of
coordination of all the CDRs (in which we participate actively) does not drag us from our
main force, the local community organization .
Then came the 21D and little by little the discourse of the magical independence movement
was falling, but there was no emptiness but the discourse of popular self-organization as
the basis of all change, which was there from the beginning and has been strengthened.
Also the relationships between the people that participate have been strengthening and we
have been catching affection, there have been personal conflicts and fat we have been
Now the line of territorial cohesion is taking more strength, in which I participate and
we are meeting with different neighbors who have not felt anything identified with the
move to understand and find common ground, and we are talking about strategy to adapt to
the actual situation.
We have been making statements agreed by all the members of the CDRL, and you can find
them on the website https://cdrlvilamajor.wordpress.com/cdrl-vilamajor/ and some that are
not there on the twitter @CDRLVilamajor
3. I have already told it more or less. Weekly assemblies. Number of attendees fluctuates
between 70 and 10, although the normal is 15. In any case, there are many people
responsible for things that come to the assemblies that can. Of people responsible we are
30 more or less.
4. Obviously it has had influence, although I think it has gone beyond part of the
assembly that was the 15M, and also has another grace is that it is a more decentralized
movement and where the rural or periurban has more prominence.
Regarding the proposal, from the beginning Vilamajor was one of the people who promoted it
(we picked it from the Azadî platform and defended it in the meetings), as a way to
synergize horizontality with organizational agility. Obviously we knew that the process of
organizing the CDRs would be crazy not comparable to Rojava, but we agreed that some
elements such as the co-delegates could help. Indeed, the process of organization has been
crazy ... the rotativities have been skipped, there have been very strong power dynamics,
people burning ... but it must be said that taking into account that it was built in such
a short time and in Based on something so diffuse, it's still amazing how well it worked.
5. I think I have already answered all this in the 2
6. For me, the Revolution is a process full of contradictions ... if we do not want
contradictions better to stay at home and not change anything, so I do not know what to
7. There has been everything ... Much of the libertarian has remained rather in an ivory
tower with respect to the issue, absent contradictions. On the other hand, however, there
have been many libertarians, and even organizations such as Embat, who have bravely
confronted these contradictions and become wet, in an imperfect but revolutionary way. I
think that all these people have done a very good job and that thanks to them the CDRs
have a strong component of decentralized popular self-organization, and a more present
social component. Anarchism opens new doors and fresh air if it knows how to reinvent
itself in the way that many libertarians have done with the Proces.
To improve, then make self-criticism of how we weigh (and incapacitate us to influence
certain social situations) precisely these contradictions and where this way of
understanding the revolution comes from. In this sense, I believe that criticism of
anarchism and leftist movements made from the Democratic Confederation can inspire and
1.- I will not idenfify the CoR at the request of the participants
2.- The CDR where I participate (although not regularly in their assemblies) is born from
the impulse especially of a group of young people from the town, who see the organization
of the referendum 1 OCTOBER as a danger because the town hall governs the PSC at this time
, the result of a pact with ERC. This impulse united people with very different political
and militant trajectories that decided to continue organizing together.
Personally, I participate because I realize that these are spaces from which people can be
reached who, up until now, may have looked at social issues out of the corner of their
eye, not rejected, but with little or no organizational involvement.
We must take into account the context of which I speak, rural population, close to
medium-sized cities, with not many difficulties to cover basic needs (housing, etc.)
Since October 1 there has been a very active involvement at the level of people and
territory. Some people realized that it was time to reinforce issues that surely had been
raised a year before would have had no way. Issues that not only derived from the
repression experienced on day 1, but we started talking about different cases of the
repressive state: Alfon, Bódalo, Pandora etc, education, solidarity economy. We also take
the opportunity to disseminate the case of a colleague getting the people to turn to their
support (we must bear in mind that until now I had been silenced.) There have been debates
about security, disobedience etc. The fact is that all these debates they have been made
with the participation of people from PDECAT, ERC ... They first understood this space as
another one from which they wanted to gain revenue but the CDR participants made it clear
that no one would take advantage of anything, some left it but others have continued to
attend. I find this process very interesting, my experience is that they are shaking many
consciences and the most interesting part, which question aspects that until now had been
untouchable because it was based on the principle that "things are like this", instead it
is now "We are working to change them." There is a process of politicization that is
leading to an increase in the capacity for self-organization. some left it but others have
continued to attend. I find this process very interesting, my experience is that they are
shaking many consciences and the most interesting part, which question aspects that until
now had been untouchable because it was based on the principle that "things are like
this", instead it is now "We are working to change them." There is a process of
politicization that is leading to an increase in the capacity for self-organization. some
left it but others have continued to attend. I find this process very interesting, my
experience is that they are shaking many consciences and the most interesting part, which
question aspects that until now had been untouchable because it was based on the principle
that "things are like this", instead it is now "We are working to change them." There is a
process of politicization that is leading to an increase in the capacity for
3.- Weekly meetings are held, which started with a lot of assistance (50 people approx.).
Right now, about 10-15 people attend on a regular basis, but at certain times the
attendance increases again. Being directly affected by cases of repression, when a
situation arises that requires the participation of people, they are there again, this
denotes that people are active, although not with the capacity to work permanently.
There are representatives who attend the coordination meetings of all the CDRs, and the
information is always transferred in situ, who does not attend the meetings does not have
access to the information. This is the result of a debate on participation, since it was
considered that the fact of transferring information through other channels, deactivates
and eliminates the debate. Committees are also organized when specific topics have to be
Around the end of the year there was a debate about the continuity or otherwise of the
meetings and the objectives that were intended, and the need to continue and organize and
participate in activities to maintain the organization and fill the process of
self-determination with social content was agreed. what we intend
4.- About 15M, undoubtedly translated into a process of politicization of many people
although the real impact was diminished by the entry of some into institutions and the
attempt to monopolize struggles and demands that emerged on the street. At an
organizational level, I believe that the CDRs have more potential. A significant fact is
that 15M occurred in urban contexts and, on the other hand, the organization of the CDRs
is also taking place in rural areas, therefore, it has more wealth because it is based on
the concerns and needs of each territory.
It is difficult to make a comparison with the Rojava method, especially since it would
take much more travel to make this assessment, and it remains to be seen if it will. That
is to say, at a structural level it does have its resemblance, but from here to speak of
democratic confederalism there is a stretch.
The practical validity will depend on the level of involvement of the people, if the
rotations in the participation and the co-delegations are achieved in order not to burn
the most involved people and the autonomy of each space is maintained so that each one
responds from their needs , we can talk about validity. Another element that will allow to
assess its validity will be that of constant revision so that the space maintains its
horizontality in the decision making process.
5.- I imagine that each reality is different, in my case it is clear that social debate
predominates. I can not talk about strategy, I do not think there is any at the moment,
but the debate goes beyond an identity nationalist proposal. We are in the phase of
reflection totally linked to the country that we want that is linked to the process we are
experiencing all together, of a systemic crisis, where nothing works with the codes with
which it has grown. It is also very interesting that the CDR is totally intergenerational
and with very different training profiles, at this moment very encouraging self-managed
projects are being proposed. Therefore the country that is proposed is linked to social
justice in all aspects of life.
6.- It is impossible to achieve changes with the participation of only one sector of
society, and this is proven by history. Obviously not easy, some days I have participated
in acts with slogans or words with which I feel very distant and very uncomfortable, but
in the end the reflection is, what will be our journey if we only attend events for
convinced? we must go further and try to reach those who from the outset do not consider
7.- It was September 13 when the thousands of police and civil guard began to disembark
from the rest of the Spanish state, but "the libertarian" maintained the role of an
incredulous spectator, although the repressive attacks on the media have already begun to
be seen. communication, etc. On the other hand, as of September 20 there is a change of
landscape that is not univocal in the entire libertarian sector, the most purist decides
to position itself on the margin questioning that any other option means making the game
to the bourgeoisie. On the other hand, another sector, decides to take part and organize
itself mainly with the argument of facing repression. The latter is joined by unions
(which take the step of presenting the notice of general strike and social movements).
It could have improved if previously it had filled the process of social content ..
8.- Unquestionably. October 1 was an exercise of popular organization, when the days
before the rumors that the police would be from very early in the schools and could not be
entered, the town overflowed everything "because we will go the day before " They were
days of collective catharsis. People empowered themselves, at that moment they were
unstoppable. This does not like to power.
October 3 is a clear example of loser's play, have a society that will fully support a
general strike and boycott with the invention of CCOO and UGT of "aturada general" in
collusion with ANC, OMNIUM, and government gives a clear reading of the facts. They join
forces with a word that makes us lose power: "aturada", from there we see the staging of
the withdrawal of the project by some, not the people, who were still alive.
9.- As of this date it has been tried to identify CDRs to terrorism, I do not think that
it has penetrated in the field of Catalonia, but maybe in the rest of the state. But this
disinflation is not only given by the theme of Easter, but by the whole process in general.
10.- Talk to people from here, to inform themselves, to read. I have had the opportunity
to talk with people from different areas of the Spanish state and only a minor% have shown
some empathy. The rest was generated after long conversations, but initially showed
reluctance to show solidarity with our demand.
11.- To make believe that a process of this dimension is done voting on day 1 and getting
independence on day 2 is of absolute irresponsibility (many people believed that it would
be this way, because that is how they explained it to him)
They have been able to save the ship when more of it was there to stay when it was in deep
crisis, and the immobilization role of ERC, has allowed them to be shipwrecked
12 .- Autonomism .. Generate with rejection, does not give credibility, is distanced from
the demands of the CDRs (although the rest of deputies as well), and it is increasingly
evident that the interests of the parties do not coincide with those of the people who
participate in the CDRs.
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