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(en) Outraged Cazarabet Bookstore talks with ... Ruymán Rodriguez, author of "Anarchy at street" (Calumny, La Malatesta )(ca) [machine translation]
Thu, 3 Mar 2016 13:09:38 +0200
A book, a small, but gives not one, rather many targets and speaks also clear from reality
and today. ---- Slander which tells us about the book: ---- Periodically dichotomies
between "anarchism" occur. In the late nineteenth century was between collectivists and
communists, anti organizers and organizers, individualists and members, trade unionists
and pure syndicalists, etc. Currently this theoretical brawl, which seems to develop
cyclically, has been established between insurrectionalism and social anarchism ... ---- A
direct testimony: ---- https://vimeo.com/127554598 ---- Cazarabet talks with Ruymán
Rodriguez: ---- - Ruymán , from your point of view here, here and now, at what point is
the ideal and the idea is about anarchism
With infinite potential that lies in the instinctive need for people to use our tools, in
the vigor of our key ideas and proliferation of spaces, thinkers and publishers; but with
a real poor implementation, caused mainly by a shortage of activists interested in getting
involved in real struggles that transcend the purely theoretical interests of the
"initiated". We are like a huge head, with a privileged brain, but with a rickety body
unable to carry out his great ideas.
It's more a social anarchism or anarchist at street level that has been fed back and
outraged 15M movement ..
I think we are not yet at that stage. And the label of "social anarchism" is misleading.
15M, with its thousand defects, manipulations and teledirigismos was a huge impact for
some social movements, including the anarchist who believed that discontent, anger, or
even rebellion, were things of specialists, "professional". Seeing people walk standing up
was a shock to those who think that everyone is wrong except them, that the people are too
fool to protest. 15M caught most of the libertarian movement with his pants down, and few
parts are able to assimilate see no way anarchist people running anarchist.
Libertarians must act before they did the parties, but many their pruritos was prevented,
and institutional took the initiative in most places, corrupting and enfangándolo all. The
new faces of IU and parties newborns can completely intertwined with the old policy of
cabinet we all know, used that experience as a quarry and nursery, and now as an election
Except in a few places, which had an anarchist in 15M not provided anarchists but people
without defined ideology.
-By The way, how do you see this movement, I mean the 15M?
I think you can certainly have reason to see it as an artifact of social engineering, an
escape valve to avoid greater evils, finally controlled dissent. But honestly, even if
that, and no support at all most of the things in terms of specific claims arose in the
15M, it gives me the same source. Few people know that an organization like the First
International arose largely in the interest of Napoleon III in promoting an international
meeting among French workers ( Proudhonists mostly) and trade - unionists English, to
transmit a obrerista and social image of his dictatorship . Obviously the AIT today is in
the collective imagination as something very different. 15M could be the attempt to
prevent a violent revolution in future years, but with that and everything is obvious that
they got out of hand in most places. Today, although their efforts have been capitalized
by institutionalists, we must recognize that there we met many, who for the first time in
years began to disobey the law in droves, many learned another way of relating and
movements like housing should recognize that it was there nourished with new blood.
As with most things, nor idealize (much Booby, anti repressive strategies victimhood and
self- defeating, the scourge of the "new politics" and several new political-media popes
came from there), nor condemn him to a dark room. I think the work of anarchists is to
work with people, radicalize their aspirations, creating new ways of interacting,
stressing their fears and prejudices and exercise of political opposition and government
control. And that, either constructive criticism or key passes stain involved and to
speak. With clean hands our opinions are not worth a damn.
But as you say later to carry out the idea and ideal of anarchy each of its human
components has to be woven under individualism to save the independence of each criterion
and each .. As retain, from the grassroots and the individual, an ethical code ...
I think that contrary to the prevailing discourse in social movements, individualism is an
indispensable tool. The more I get involved in the social struggle I am convinced of it.
Certainly you must know how to define it . For me individualism is the antithesis of
artistocratism , which is really just a way to exalt a tightly dependent personality of
others ' personalities, of persons whom subjugates. The aristocrat and his servants and
sycophants, is the least individual people; at least as little as the more gregarious.
Then there individualism dark basement or attic, resentment, self constant suffering and
martyrdom that I am not interested. My individualism is that we all need to shout at a
meeting not knowing that we will be in the minority, while we have the conviction to
defend what is right. It is what allows us that when a mob runs after an individual to
lynch have enough courage to get part of the subject and not the mass. It is consoling you
if you are detained in a dungeon and you feel strong even when you do not have a support
In community projects and social struggle it is necessary to encourage people in a large
dose of individualism. To think for themselves, to discern between good or bad not so told
the official moral or ethical to use, but by what they dictate their own feelings. We are
educated to accept as morally repugnant many things, from wars, hunger or prisons. Is the
sensitivity that is purely personal, which makes our stomach churn at an injustice,
however much it is morally acceptable.
All this not to be carried away by "gregarious impulses and appetites majority" that end
up corrupting the ideal, being first corrupted ourselves ....
-In Classical anarchism, a dear idea Godwin was that the political and economic system
corrupting society and this in turn to the individual. In my experience, I believe that
any form of authority is corrupting even the most subtle. Today the main pivot of the
hierarchy is the economic issue, property, money. Long I have been convinced that
improving the economic conditions of these individuals improve personal levels. Years of
struggle have shown me that many of the people whose economic situation improved thanks to
the work of the FAGC not only not improved but worsened. Yes, corruption is a systemic and
social but also personal process. I am convinced that even in the most just and
egalitarian society will be individuals, more or less numerous, that no material need to
exercise power, will have the psychological need today. So I put the emphasis on
strengthening the individuality is the only guarantee to detect and counteract such
attitudes. The naked power of an individual, on equal terms, it can only respond with
disobedience of another.
But to fight corruption rampaging from individuals or groups, first we must establish
preventive measures and a program of social transparency to all and all alike ...
' Unfortunately there is no master formulas or magic wands. Obviously we change the ways
of relating, deconstruct the structures that condition us; but this happens by
simultaneous social struggle with staff. Is another common place in classical anarchism
discussion of whether one must first change society so that later change individuals (held
idea Bakunin and the revolutionary materialistic current) or if you first have to change
individuals to then change the society (held idea libertarians pedagogues and
individualists). My idea is that there should be simultaneous. No diseased cells with
healthy body and vice versa. We have to change those things we do not like our environment
while we force our own development. Admitting that the certainties, those guiding your
life, themselves were unheeded, and keep looking for alternatives to build a different
reality that we impose.
'I give like that, given the point where this company is, you have to start from scratch
with that fight at street ... first imprimiéndonos many demands on ourselves as
I do not know whether they should be many or few ... I know these requirements should be
the same, neither more nor less than we claim to others.
For example, it is easy to condemn the most basic manifestations of machismo, which are
found in bars, workplaces and homes; the hard part is having the courage to detect in
libertarians environments. People are disgusted with the macho bravado tavern, which has
behind him a thousand readings and workshops on feminism and overcoming gender roles, then
you can use the pretext of polyamory , to break with the bourgeois clichés, to finish
assaulting fellow and use that environment to exploit trusts and vulnerabilities.
Eventually I discovered avowed racists, people with no ideology that imposed the TV,
breaking bread with migrants, being sensitive and tolerant, and also anti racist
professionals complaining that Arabs and Senegalese are " invandiéndonos " and
monopolizing all occupied homes in the area. I've seen both classism in those who believe
that their god created us rich and poor, and between those who supposedly want to abolish
private property. At the end of ideological categories are useless. I learned to be
sympathetic and see the feelings that lie behind the words, no longer require others
nothing I have not called myself before.
But all this without losing a point in the struggle and the social demands ... and when in
recent years there has been so backward ... no lift off the throttle ...
-Social Fight, even at the pragmatic level, it should be seen as the best way to build a
bridge with ordinary people, who are the only ones who have any reason to rebel. If we
stop fighting in the streets these are emptied at the same rate that ballot boxes are filled.
Tell us about some of that potential of the social demands at street level and that seems
to come and go, I mean that is not fair, there was a time when the seats are filled,
Parliament was fenced, there were marches , demonstrations, sit - ins .. the pressure felt
and then did not know this has remained very disabled ...
-what There was an explosion, but not built almost nothing. After 40 years of silence
there was a need to talk, to recover the street as a common space and also to protest, to
denounce. The opportunity to go further and build structures from which attack did not
take advantage. The power developed in the street, this inertia that made an anti
evictions or labor picketing might have 500 people or a manifestation 15,000 (I mean Gran
Canaria) did not know funneled more conflictual and constructive way again. It was an
explosion that was not known draw his blast. Asphyxiated reform movements all with useless
bureaucracy and protocols. Platforms citizenists most attractive rage took and drowned in
endless meetings or their bright television headlines. The games were dedicated to hunting
talents. The false pacifism to draw wayward applauded while armed police. When people
realized that raising hands was getting nowhere, we had to create and defend, and
collective spirits had gone out . Anarchists must assume our responsibility.
While acknowledging that past mistakes broadly this dynamic is something sadly very
common: ebbs and flows, high and low tides, enthusiasm and depression. If new elements to
galvanize and radiate outward are not entered, the blood is stopped and the power is lost.
However, this struggle remains a residue. Not everyone involved to find a springboard to
allow them to get into professional politics. Many people have seen that the squares can
be yours, that assemblies can be resolute and gathered a group of people can get very
nervous state. Of that struggle were us, and we are responsible not stop trying.
'I think it is because many of these people have gone to swell the ranks of movements that
began to take a step towards institutionalism from municipalities to spokespersons of
citizen movements always already constituted as political parties represented in
institutions from Counties, Parliament or the Senate through autonomous parliaments or
'Of course, that was much of the problem. We have people taking our side the right to
speak in the square that has ended any council or general secretariat. We have people who
occupied and stop evictions now consents from the council. People who were denounced by
the police and now directs local police to denounce his former colleagues. All this
creates confusion, and for many is not easy to charge against their known but increasingly
expensive repressor have. Part of the movement has absorbed this patience toward promoting
public authorities, asking them to stop work, minimizing the effects of the vote or even
inviting us directly to vote.
It is not just another tour de force of the system, which should not catch us so unarmed.
This has not been more than a (business, in its first stage) is to demobilize, emptying
the streets, to redirect the anger and turn it into passivity, muzzle critics.
Institutional and parliamentary means dyed red was responsible for killing the protest; at
least it is trying. Although the pipeline has gone well, the results are evident
clumsiness. You can not fool everyone all the time, nor can govern innocently, and the
harsh reality that shows us that the colleague bar is transformed into a tyrant just sit
in a council, we splashed all his bile to expensive.
They have emptied the street, but the price to portray. Today we can tell the posibilitas
their stupidities are saved and that the next time they want to kill myself their
rebellion seeking his own rope. Today there is still an opportunity for anti parliamentary
action and anti delegacionista .
But the claim at street level must have its limits and red lines ... the limits of social
struggle, where are they?
'In our own fallible condition. We must assume that any project we start, none, become
perfect people. We are perfectible, improvable, but nothing more. Believe that there is a
social model that can make the lion and the lamb sleep together, rain manna from heaven
every day good weather and shine, is not religion but politics. Even in the best objective
conditions there is room for abuse and aggression. It is not a determinism, inevitability
to what we are doomed; it is a possibility with which we start counting our calculations
and strategies. Give food and shelter to people, provide free education tools are
essential things that do not yet have necessarily drive them better people. The change in
few, those who already had a prior interest; others moves them sadly inertia; but there is
also one having everything on your part, choose to oppress their fellowmen. Barrett said
that evil was something sick and wrong. It is not a question of good or bad but, as I said
Wilde, of what they make us our deeds. The prevailing social model constrains us to do
many things we do not want, so you have to fight; but remove that constraint does not
guarantee harmony. It is hard work background, the unfinished project of a lifetime. The
limit is to realize our own myths, our theoretical errors, the futility of our manuals.
The theory has to be dragged through the mud, and only then, stained reality, may be useful.
Another limit is not to fall into the work of NGOs. Fill gaps is necessary, but to show
that there is another way of doing things and that we can operate without a state. When
done uncritically, avoiding conflict, we solve problems and deficits System and reinforce
rather than weaken it. In the FAGC we realized this incongruity when social workers and
municipalities began to send people to the realojáramos. The social struggle can not
remain insensitive to the needs of the people, but neither can be plug leaks System or the
opportunity to reclosing excluded the capitalist model.
-The Strategies of social struggle, that of "at street level", which I like as much as it
sounds ... must be solid and well designed without being fought at all, with individualism
and our own code ... how can we carry it to term exerting the greatest pressure and that
is, respectful "with the individual" to take their boxes to power that smothers citizens?
It's paramount influence on the will and discernment itself, but this is not an obstacle
to chart a collective plan and put it into practice. Quite the opposite: free criteria of
all the individuals involved are only filters that improve common practice. I think it is
necessary to remove the focus from the purely theoretical and propagandistic militancy and
put on basic needs. I think seeing how easily criminalizable is any offensive System, the
best way to hurt him is by eating soil from below so that it breaks above, snatching
resources and property, means of production, collectivizing and socializing what State and
Capital have appropriate. This must be done directly and without legal prerogatives.
There are neighborhoods with 30% or 40% of abandoned houses, mostly in the hands of
financial or state entities. Where occupations are made in silence and trying to shy
away from the conflict. What I propose is nothing different from what was done in the 20s
and 30s of the last century with factories in Italy or Spain, or what was done in house
from the Paris Commune to Kronstadt . These occupations must be organized, be done
systematically and managed by the common neighbors through assemblies and offices or
commissions expropriation. People should feel those houses like his, part of their common
heritage, decide what to do with them, instruct the office to make an updated and move to
manage and distribute depending on the number of homeless and the size census and
conditions property. This was in The Conquest of Bread of Kropotkin and the beginning of
the revolutions of councils or soviets. I'm not saying anything new.
This raises a situation of open war against the State Capital and the largest that any
fickleness of armed struggle. It is the ordinary people taking consumer goods in their
hands and managing them, regardless of the laws, without intermediaries. I think a
strategy that, if implemented well, will yield great results.
It is not the panacea, is not be a final solution, but it is a good way to whet gap.
- Ruymán , let me please ask you because "you are now" being responsible for the increased
movement of occupation of state Spanish ( Community of Hope in the town of Guia,
municipality north of the island of Gran Canaria) thing that has brought you reprisals and
serious, Tell us, please, first of all of that movement ...
They're 4 blocks of homes seized by a construction Bankia and then the SAREB that deal,
negotiating with the building itself, at the beginning of 2013. As we enable facilities,
we started to put families. In the middle of that year were 20 at the end of 2015 and were
76. Our first idea was to alleviate the urgent need for roof on the island, and then think
about trying other forms of cohabitation. This February marks three years since the first
family came to live there.
-The Project aims to families with many basic needs the board to tackle, join, living and
trying to settle the problems by resorting to the assembly. Tell us…
As I commented, our purpose was also looking at the feasibility of a micro -society
libertarian scale. The asamblearismo for us was no longer just a form of collective
decision or small groups and became the managing body of a population of 300 people.
Mutual support, the idea of bringing the possibilities and receive according to need, were
concepts that left the field slogans and became survival tools. Direct action, act without
intermediaries, was the way to solve all technical problems and, where possible, those of
coexistence. Eventually we got to live in a particular version of anarchy for the
neighbors was especially functional and for us an inexhaustible wealth of empirical knowledge.
Dude and to whom may annoy people seek solve their problems ?, enlighten me because I can
not see it ..
-A Economic and political powers. Show people that we can operate and gestionarnos without
state or capitalism is an attack on its ideological hegemony and its industrialista
monopoly. This is like syndrome Munchausen by proxy. The affected person persuades another
who is sick and weak and dependent on it for their development, but it is actually the
person who pretends to be careful which is making us sick. The system suffers from the
same disease and we suffer the consequences. We, we maintain it with our work,
resignations and humiliations, we firmly believe that rely on the system to survive, that
would die without it, when in fact it would be the system that would die if we were to say
enough and we we organize otherwise. The example of man chained Malatesta tells us about
That's what bothers these people: if we organize autonomously and take away their
resources, they lose their privileges.
How you began, therefore, to get retaliation and problems?
'It was a constant. arbitrary identifications, photographs to my home, attempts at
intimidation. The most serious was the kidnapping I suffered in late April last year and
subsequent torture. As a result the Civil Guard was faced with the problem of having to
justify my arrest and my stay in dungeons, so one of the agents, mainly responsible for
the torture, alleged that he was assaulted. Whereupon, in addition to the kidnapping,
threats and injuries, I am now in a prosecution for assault on authority.
Have you experienced what we might mention or describe as "ideological hatred"?
-If. They are police and anarchist, I do not expect anything else from them. Anarchists
support when limited to writing, film screenings and debate, but when they try to put
their ideas into practice then they are a threat. They defend the law and the privileges
that are incompatible with our lives. Their hatred is proportional to our social impact
and ability to work, but not always: so is the calculations and political interests of
those who run them.
What role played by the police and Civil Guard in all this?
They've been the executive arm of a series of harassments mainly intended to destabilize
the Community project "Hope" and subsequently destroy the FAGC. When I was kidnapped his
only interest was to threaten, harass, trying to scare me to abandon the city and
struggle. Seeing that it was ineffective was when they resorted to physical violence.
However, I hope that by now you have realized that this does not affect us, we have
continued realojando, advising evictions and even threaten with a rent strike that
prevented the eviction of more than a dozen families. We are working harder than ever,
raising Popular Expropriation Office and involving ourselves in major housing projects.
Have you noticed solidarity and fraternity among the rest of the population or more well,
most of the time, you have seen and / or suffered from that of: "ándese hot ... and while
I have the hot back ..."?
-Both. When the FAGC was less known we were suffering repression with very little
coverage. Even groups and unions geographically closer look the other way. Currently our
work has had greater impact and are many and many comrades to repression have been on our
side, shoulder to shoulder, shouting for our freedom. We have received a lot of support
and heat especially the rest of the Spanish state, but also in countries such as Germany,
Greece and Venezuela.
The campaign initiated by peers in the Iberian Peninsula before the trial on February 16,
with more than a million messages on social networks is something we can never thank them.
Today we feel wrapped itself a lot.
'What time are you now find, about justice, I mean ...?
-A Awaiting sentencing. the request by the prosecution (the lawyer of the Spanish Civil
Guard Association) that I impute a crime of attack on the authority and subsequent
imprisonment remains. The only positive is that officially denounced the policeman who
strangled me for the attacks. Everything is in the air. For my part, and despite having
there that sword of Damocles over the neck, I will continue to fight, oblivious to their
Anarquía at street level . Ruymán Rodriguez
51 pages 12 x 18 cms.
Slander, La Malatesta
Periodically dichotomies between "anarchism" occur. In the late nineteenth century was
between collectivists and communists, anti organizers and organizers, individualists and
members, trade unionists and pure syndicalists, etc. Currently this theoretical brawl,
which seems to develop cyclically, has been established between insurrectionalism and
social anarchism ...
A - I N F O S N E W S S E R V I C E
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